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[Music]

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hey guys how's it going i am back from

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columbia as you can see i'm a little bit

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sleepy still jet lag is still playing

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tricks with me

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so bear with me um it is great to be

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back thank you to everybody with the who

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sent messages for support while i was

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out in colombia it was really nice good

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to see everybody here um i just want to

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take a moment to send some thoughts out

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to everybody in the ukraine today that

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wasn't the best news to wake up to so my

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thoughts are with the the citizens of

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the ukraine

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um

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let's not waste any more time i am so

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honored to be able to speak to this

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gentleman today i am a big big fan of

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his work and his youtube channel new

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thinking aloud so without further ado

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please put your hands together

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for mr jeffrey mishlov jeffrey how are

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you

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taking the time to to spend some some

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i think it'd be great if we could kick

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start this off by just going back a

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little bit into into the past maybe your

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early days of university i believe in

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the early 70s and how you got into the

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the subject of parapsychology and things

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like that

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yeah i think my interest if we look at

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the ufo side of things goes back to

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about the time i was

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10 years old

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i started reading ufo books in the in

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the local library so that would have

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been mid

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1950s i even wrote a letter to

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a well-known writer at the time a

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skeptic who was a professor of astronomy

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at harvard university and uh asked him

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about ufos and he wrote back to me

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when i was a ten-year-old child so this

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is a long-standing

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interest of mine and

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when i got to college i went to the

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university of wisconsin madison uh it

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was a very good school i got a degree in

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psychology but i did my

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senior honors thesis there on the

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psychology of religious mysticism and

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actually i

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this is in the 1960s i went into it

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i started this project as a skeptic i

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thought there's certainly some

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psychopathologies that will account for

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people reporting that they see ghosts

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and are having mystical experiences but

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by the time i started digging into the

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research

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i realized that actually some of the uh

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people who are reporting these

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experiences are amongst the most

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successful healthy minded people in

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society

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and

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so that that sort of turned me around

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and at the same time being a child of

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the 60s i was

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getting exposed to

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an alternative world view based on

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the use of psychedelics based on the war

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in vietnam today we're having

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another war but back back then the

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war in vietnam was huge in terms of the

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social impact it had on college campuses

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all across the country and

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young people of my generation were

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one of the slogans that that was common

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when i was a college student was never

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trust anyone over 30.

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i was

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a really strong sense that that

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something had gone very very wrong with

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mainstream culture

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at that time these days i'm much more

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sympathetic to mainstream culture

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than i was then but uh in in any case

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that that was sort of my very first uh

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exposure to these things and

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[Music]

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then i went to graduate school in

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berkeley in california have a master's

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degree in

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criminology

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but while i was

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doing an internship at san quentin

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prison doing group therapy sessions with

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murderers and rapists

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i had what we would now call an after

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death communication

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it came to me in a dream my great uncle

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harry

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appeared to me in a dream it almost at

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the very moment of his death and

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he was thousands of miles away

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at the time i hadn't been in touch with

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him maybe for 10 years

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and

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but the dream was so powerful

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that when i woke up i was crying tears

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of joy and simultaneously

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singing

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a song which in the jewish tradition is

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one of the most sacred songs it's only

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sung in the high holidays

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of judaism so

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i i was so touched i wrote home said

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how's uncle harry i had a dream about

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him and my mother phoned me instantly

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saying how did you know uncle harry just

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died

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uh so that really spurred me to

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switch gears and um i knew that i was

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very interested in

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studying human deviance but i made a

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decision at that time to focus on the

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positive side of human deviance not

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exclusively psychopathology and crime so

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i created a unique

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individual interdisciplinary

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doctoral major at berkeley in

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parapsychology and that that took me

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seven years

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but at the end of that time in 1980 i

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received a diploma

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from the university that actually says

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that my field of study is parapsychology

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and to my knowledge it's the only such

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diploma in the world that identifies

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parapsychology as a legitimate field of

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study

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wow that is absolutely impressive and

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so during all that time were you still

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keen and interested in the ufo subject

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like alongside it

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yes as a matter of fact because

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at the same time back in 1972

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as i recall i sponsored erie geller's

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first major public appearance in the

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united states i it was sponsoring

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symposia i was doing media i was doing

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radio programs at the time on the local

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pacifica fm station in berkeley and

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uh if if you know the story uh andrea

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pujarich the first researcher who wrote

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about uri geller's uh

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achievements uh writes extensively about

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the relationship between geller and a

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mysterious

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phenomena associated with ufo sightings

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that uh geller referred to as i recall

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as hoover

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wow i've not heard that one before

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actually i think oh yes

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and so the gentleman you mentioned that

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wrote first wrote about gala was that

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the book um yuri was it called

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yes yes why i'm andrea pooheridge who

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died many years ago but back in those

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days uh i knew him well

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excellent and did you did you ever by

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the early 70s had you experienced any

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any ufo sightings or anything of that

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sort

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when i uh

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met ted owens also known as the pk man

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and

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i ended up writing a book about them it

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didn't get published until 1999.

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uh but ted owens claimed

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that he had psychokinetic powers the or

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mind over matter powers he had actually

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been a

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uh

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research associate working with jb ron

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at duke university while he was a

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college student at duke back in the

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1940s so

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this this goes back a long way

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and he claimed that

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he was in telepathic contact with aliens

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and that they

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empowered him to perform various

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psychokinetic feats that he would do in

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conjunction

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with them it was never quite clear to me

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whether this was his psychokinesis or

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whether he was

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telepathically contacting aliens but the

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the phenomena were quite real he would

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send letters in writing in advance to

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myself and also many other researchers

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saying this is what i am about to

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produce with the help of my uh he called

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them the space intelligences that he

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worked with and and then would come

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newspaper clippings showing various

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large-scale events that he had predicted

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did indeed happen they could be power

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blackouts ufo sightings uh strange

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weather cold waves in the middle of

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summer heat waves in the middle of

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winter

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sometimes they involve volcanoes

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earthquakes tornadoes

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things of that sort and over

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the 10 years that i worked with him i

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accumulated documentation on

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over 160

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of these

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demonstrations of usually events that

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you would say off the top of your head

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there's maybe a one percent chance that

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this

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sort of thing would happen but

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he was roughly

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i would say better than 60 percent

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accurate

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in

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and he said yes i will cause three ufo

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sightings to appear within a i think it

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was a hundred mile radius of san

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francisco

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and so we began this

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experiment it happened rather quickly i

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tried to put together a control group by

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using san diego with similar west coast

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city as a control

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so i had other researchers in san diego

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monitoring

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you know like by chance are there going

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to be this many ufo sightings anyway

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well

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uh

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we were off to a good start we had a

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ufo

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sight an abduction in fact was reported

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in concord california

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four a.m in the morning by a an

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unsuspecting person who had no interest

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in ufos but ended up reporting it to the

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police it got into the local newspapers

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and then

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ted owens called me up

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and he said jeffrey i feel it coming

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this is going to be

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very big this could be the biggest ufo

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sighting ever

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he said this will be

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seen by hundreds of people it will be

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photographed and the photograph will be

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published on the front page of one of

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your local newspapers and that is

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exactly what happened three days later

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in december

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it was seen

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not only from the ground by hundreds of

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people who photographed and videotaped

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it but it was seen from the air

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because

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what was happening at the time was that

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the

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department was sponsoring

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a an art exhibit by a pilot who was an

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artist named stephen

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palesky and

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he had a little airplane he's flying

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3000 feet above the campus with smoke

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trailing out of his plane creating

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loop-de-loos and aerobatic designs

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in the sky and that's the art exhibit so

285
00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:22,880
the whole art department is out there

286
00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:24,720
with their cameras

287
00:13:30,230 --> 00:13:28,880
and a ufo appeared right in his airspace

288
00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:30,240
wow

289
00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:31,760
and and so

290
00:13:36,069 --> 00:13:33,200
um

291
00:13:38,550 --> 00:13:36,079
i think you can even visit his website

292
00:13:42,069 --> 00:13:38,560
he still talks about that event

293
00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:42,079
uh the videotape was shown on the

294
00:13:45,750 --> 00:13:44,320
channel nine evening news in san

295
00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:45,760
francisco

296
00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:48,000
the photograph was published on the

297
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:51,360
front page of the berkeley gazette

298
00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:52,560
and

299
00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:55,440
i think at that point in time it was

300
00:13:58,870 --> 00:13:57,120
probably the

301
00:14:04,790 --> 00:13:58,880
most

302
00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:04,800
detailed and uh documented ufo sighting

303
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:07,440
in history up until then although you

304
00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:10,079
know the ufo research community wasn't

305
00:14:14,389 --> 00:14:12,800
all that well organized i can't say

306
00:14:17,110 --> 00:14:14,399
that other than

307
00:14:18,949 --> 00:14:17,120
my book that was published 20 years

308
00:14:20,150 --> 00:14:18,959
later the pk man

309
00:14:23,110 --> 00:14:20,160
it ever

310
00:14:25,990 --> 00:14:23,120
got beyond local news coverage but but

311
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:26,000
there you have it i i was

312
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:28,560
i worked for 10 years with ted owens so

313
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:32,240
i had a kind of uh intimate feeling for

314
00:14:38,389 --> 00:14:35,680
his understanding of his own personal

315
00:14:40,470 --> 00:14:38,399
telepathic connection with

316
00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:40,480
these aliens he called the space

317
00:14:44,470 --> 00:14:42,320
intelligences

318
00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:44,480
wow incredible thank you for sharing

319
00:14:48,069 --> 00:14:46,720
that did that lead you on to believe

320
00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:48,079
that there is some kind of connection

321
00:14:52,389 --> 00:14:50,880
between human consciousness and uh

322
00:14:53,829 --> 00:14:52,399
non-human

323
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:53,839
you know um

324
00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:55,120
aliens or

325
00:14:58,389 --> 00:14:56,720
entities

326
00:15:01,030 --> 00:14:58,399
well there are two good examples

327
00:15:04,790 --> 00:15:01,040
there uri geller and ted owens both of

328
00:15:06,870 --> 00:15:04,800
whom have demonstrated and have tried

329
00:15:08,870 --> 00:15:06,880
very hard to work with scientists to

330
00:15:11,910 --> 00:15:08,880
demonstrate under

331
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:11,920
good scientific controls that they had

332
00:15:16,870 --> 00:15:14,079
some sort of paranormal abilities

333
00:15:19,470 --> 00:15:16,880
whether it's precognition as some people

334
00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:19,480
still think ted owens was doing or

335
00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:23,120
psychokinesis we can debate that but in

336
00:15:30,150 --> 00:15:26,720
both cases you have people with very

337
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:30,160
unusual degrees of paranormal abilities

338
00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:34,240
who are claiming that there is a ufo

339
00:15:38,150 --> 00:15:35,680
connection

340
00:15:41,110 --> 00:15:38,160
that is in some way involved or

341
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:41,120
responsible for those abilities so yes i

342
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:43,920
took that very seriously

343
00:15:48,790 --> 00:15:45,920
as um

344
00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:48,800
a hypothesis worthy of further

345
00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:50,560
exploration

346
00:15:55,269 --> 00:15:52,560
yeah indeed indeed and and over the

347
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:55,279
years when when you've thought about

348
00:16:00,150 --> 00:15:57,360
what these non-human intelligences

349
00:16:03,829 --> 00:16:02,230
these days we see a lot of different uh

350
00:16:05,310 --> 00:16:03,839
names for them extraterrestrial

351
00:16:07,269 --> 00:16:05,320
interdimensional

352
00:16:09,749 --> 00:16:07,279
crypto-terrestrial and so on and so

353
00:16:12,230 --> 00:16:09,759
forth is there anyone that stands out

354
00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:12,240
for you more these days the is more

355
00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:14,160
likely to be a potential candidate for

356
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:16,480
what they actually represent

357
00:16:21,670 --> 00:16:19,199
i probably lean toward the extra

358
00:16:24,550 --> 00:16:21,680
dimensional hypothesis

359
00:16:27,749 --> 00:16:24,560
there's been a lot of advance work going

360
00:16:29,910 --> 00:16:27,759
on in what mathematicians and physicists

361
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:29,920
call hyperspace

362
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:32,480
and i i think it's also related to the

363
00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:34,560
afterlife

364
00:16:40,150 --> 00:16:37,120
as well if the bardo planes as the

365
00:16:43,110 --> 00:16:40,160
tibetans refer to them are real and

366
00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:43,120
there's good evidence that that is the

367
00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:45,839
case i've documented that recently in my

368
00:16:52,069 --> 00:16:48,720
essay for the bigelow institute

369
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:52,079
competition uh excellent evidence for

370
00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:54,240
the existence of an afterlife it has to

371
00:16:59,030 --> 00:16:55,920
be somewhere

372
00:17:01,189 --> 00:16:59,040
and somewhere that's probably not part

373
00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:01,199
of our three-dimensional space it's not

374
00:17:05,110 --> 00:17:03,600
like you can dig into the earth and find

375
00:17:06,309 --> 00:17:05,120
the afterlife

376
00:17:09,270 --> 00:17:06,319
uh

377
00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:09,280
or or you know send rockets up into the

378
00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:12,959
sky and arrive in heaven you've got to

379
00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:17,360
look elsewhere and hyperspace seems like

380
00:17:22,630 --> 00:17:19,600
where that elsewhere is and so i think

381
00:17:25,390 --> 00:17:22,640
there's some overlap between these extra

382
00:17:28,230 --> 00:17:25,400
dimensional beings who may also be

383
00:17:30,070 --> 00:17:28,240
extraterrestrial in in the sense that if

384
00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:30,080
if they live on the other side of the

385
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:34,480
galaxy or in a distant galaxy

386
00:17:39,590 --> 00:17:36,080
the only way they're going to travel

387
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:39,600
here if they have life spans like ours

388
00:17:42,870 --> 00:17:41,280
is

389
00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:42,880
somehow we're traveling through

390
00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:45,520
hyperspace and we have good reason to

391
00:17:51,029 --> 00:17:48,960
think from theoretical physics today

392
00:17:53,830 --> 00:17:51,039
in terms of what is now referred to as

393
00:17:55,909 --> 00:17:53,840
quantum entanglement that ultimately

394
00:17:58,230 --> 00:17:55,919
every point in what we think of his

395
00:18:00,470 --> 00:17:58,240
physical space is intimately connected

396
00:18:02,390 --> 00:18:00,480
to every other point anyway

397
00:18:04,710 --> 00:18:02,400
and and that connection

398
00:18:07,590 --> 00:18:04,720
uh i suspect is through what

399
00:18:09,909 --> 00:18:07,600
mathematicians call hyperspace so that's

400
00:18:11,669 --> 00:18:09,919
a vast area today

401
00:18:12,830 --> 00:18:11,679
i would say

402
00:18:16,950 --> 00:18:12,840
vinnie

403
00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:16,960
that we're in at a time comparable maybe

404
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:20,720
to the 15th century when explorers were

405
00:18:25,830 --> 00:18:24,000
just beginning to map the new world new

406
00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:25,840
continents that there there are whole

407
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:28,559
new continents out there waiting for us

408
00:18:33,909 --> 00:18:31,280
to explore them and these are continents

409
00:18:37,029 --> 00:18:33,919
of hyperspace or you might even say

410
00:18:40,230 --> 00:18:37,039
continents of the mind because the our

411
00:18:42,630 --> 00:18:40,240
inner consciousness has access i think

412
00:18:45,350 --> 00:18:42,640
to hyperspace even if our physical

413
00:18:46,150 --> 00:18:45,360
bodies don't quite

414
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:46,160
yeah

415
00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:48,640
that's absolutely fascinating and i tend

416
00:18:53,190 --> 00:18:50,799
to agree at the moment these things seem

417
00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:53,200
more of a dimensional nature than a

418
00:18:58,070 --> 00:18:55,520
physical being that just travels long

419
00:19:00,789 --> 00:18:58,080
distances in our known

420
00:19:02,390 --> 00:19:00,799
universe so yeah fascinating i've got a

421
00:19:04,870 --> 00:19:02,400
quick question here from my good friend

422
00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:04,880
lara she says how would you describe the

423
00:19:09,750 --> 00:19:06,720
presence of ghosts and what are your

424
00:19:13,909 --> 00:19:11,230
well

425
00:19:15,590 --> 00:19:13,919
parapsychologists like to use the term

426
00:19:18,310 --> 00:19:15,600
apparitions

427
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:18,320
rather than ghosts

428
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:19,919
because

429
00:19:26,630 --> 00:19:23,600
the apparition is seen in the

430
00:19:29,789 --> 00:19:26,640
mind of of the beholder now there are

431
00:19:32,710 --> 00:19:29,799
cases where apparitions are often seen

432
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:32,720
simultaneously by multiple people there

433
00:19:39,110 --> 00:19:35,760
are also cases where multiple people may

434
00:19:41,590 --> 00:19:39,120
be in a room or in a location where some

435
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:41,600
people will see the apparition and other

436
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:45,919
people will not so it seems to me that

437
00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:47,760
the ability to

438
00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:49,440
interact with

439
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:51,520
this dimension

440
00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:53,840
is dependent to some degree on the

441
00:19:59,270 --> 00:19:56,400
sensitivity of the person who is

442
00:20:02,870 --> 00:19:59,280
perceiving it uh and another thing to

443
00:20:04,950 --> 00:20:02,880
consider is that living people

444
00:20:08,390 --> 00:20:04,960
are quite capable of projecting

445
00:20:09,990 --> 00:20:08,400
apparitions some of the earliest work

446
00:20:12,870 --> 00:20:10,000
done

447
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:12,880
by the society of psychical research

448
00:20:19,830 --> 00:20:16,080
which was formed in england in 1882

449
00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:19,840
to investigate phenomena of this sort

450
00:20:24,950 --> 00:20:22,080
one of their very first books was called

451
00:20:27,110 --> 00:20:24,960
apparitions of the living

452
00:20:30,310 --> 00:20:27,120
where there are many examples you could

453
00:20:31,990 --> 00:20:30,320
call it by location or examples of

454
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:32,000
people who are highly developed

455
00:20:38,630 --> 00:20:34,960
meditators or people who just happen to

456
00:20:41,110 --> 00:20:38,640
have a spontaneous experience where they

457
00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:41,120
visualize themselves at some other

458
00:20:46,630 --> 00:20:44,400
location and then another person at that

459
00:20:48,070 --> 00:20:46,640
location will see them there

460
00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:48,080
so

461
00:20:51,510 --> 00:20:50,320
there's always been a

462
00:20:53,870 --> 00:20:51,520
debate

463
00:20:56,070 --> 00:20:53,880
in the psychical research and

464
00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:56,080
parapsychological communities as to

465
00:21:02,149 --> 00:20:59,679
whether these kinds of phenomena are

466
00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:02,159
attributed to the deceased or to the

467
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:03,919
living

468
00:21:09,430 --> 00:21:06,080
you know it's with still

469
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:09,440
even after 140 years of massive amounts

470
00:21:15,110 --> 00:21:12,720
of empirical data uh we have so much yet

471
00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:15,120
to learn and of course this is not a

472
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:17,679
highly funded field

473
00:21:23,029 --> 00:21:19,600
we're not talking about high energy

474
00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:23,039
physics or or astronomy where we can

475
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:25,280
spend billions of dollars putting

476
00:21:31,630 --> 00:21:29,200
telescopes into outer space uh

477
00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:31,640
the amount of money poured into

478
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:34,640
parapsychology and psychical research is

479
00:21:38,230 --> 00:21:37,120
a pittance compared to other fields of

480
00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:38,240
science

481
00:21:42,230 --> 00:21:40,559
yeah absolutely absolutely now you

482
00:21:43,990 --> 00:21:42,240
mentioned in there that certain people

483
00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:44,000
may witness an apparition whereas others

484
00:21:47,430 --> 00:21:46,320
may not and that straight away made me

485
00:21:49,510 --> 00:21:47,440
think about

486
00:21:51,909 --> 00:21:49,520
we often hear of ufos where there's

487
00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:51,919
multiple witnesses but some may perceive

488
00:21:55,909 --> 00:21:53,520
the object in a different way to the

489
00:21:58,390 --> 00:21:55,919
person next to them and again some may

490
00:22:00,549 --> 00:21:58,400
see the object and and others might so

491
00:22:02,789 --> 00:22:00,559
could there be some tie-in there to to

492
00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:02,799
it as one bigger picture where

493
00:22:06,950 --> 00:22:04,880
what you mentioned before and ufos could

494
00:22:08,630 --> 00:22:06,960
well be related

495
00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:08,640
well in if we

496
00:22:15,430 --> 00:22:11,520
go look at the esoteric literature they

497
00:22:19,590 --> 00:22:15,440
refer to astral entities in the astral

498
00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:19,600
plane as sort of a a realm of reality

499
00:22:24,830 --> 00:22:21,840
you could call it a hyperspace dimension

500
00:22:27,990 --> 00:22:24,840
i think that interfaces with physical

501
00:22:30,950 --> 00:22:28,000
reality sometimes uh

502
00:22:33,510 --> 00:22:30,960
and sometimes uh it's the sort of thing

503
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:33,520
that certain people are sensitive to

504
00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:36,000
they can feel a presence or see an

505
00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:37,840
apparition because they have that

506
00:22:42,070 --> 00:22:41,200
sensitivity other people may not have it

507
00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:42,080
so

508
00:22:47,909 --> 00:22:45,360
it does seem to be that

509
00:22:50,390 --> 00:22:47,919
if you look at the

510
00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:50,400
reports that you've just cited and that

511
00:22:53,510 --> 00:22:52,480
i've just cited and you combine that

512
00:22:55,669 --> 00:22:53,520
with the

513
00:22:57,110 --> 00:22:55,679
folklore which i think

514
00:23:00,470 --> 00:22:57,120
has a certain

515
00:23:02,710 --> 00:23:00,480
validity to it it makes sense that

516
00:23:05,510 --> 00:23:02,720
we're dealing with some kind of a

517
00:23:07,510 --> 00:23:05,520
phenomenon that can flit in and out of

518
00:23:10,149 --> 00:23:07,520
physical space but

519
00:23:13,510 --> 00:23:10,159
there are certain gray areas in which

520
00:23:16,549 --> 00:23:13,520
our physical reality intersects with

521
00:23:19,350 --> 00:23:16,559
some other form of existence that

522
00:23:21,350 --> 00:23:19,360
cannot be perceived by everyone

523
00:23:23,350 --> 00:23:21,360
yeah absolutely and i like the way that

524
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:23,360
you you speak about it because you're

525
00:23:27,669 --> 00:23:25,520
not stating it as fact and and some

526
00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:27,679
people take it that little bit too far

527
00:23:31,029 --> 00:23:28,960
sometimes

528
00:23:33,750 --> 00:23:31,039
and i just like the way that you present

529
00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:33,760
that so so that's great thank you

530
00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:35,440
now we were talking earlier about work

531
00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:38,240
you were doing around 1976 and am i

532
00:23:42,870 --> 00:23:39,760
writing saying that was around the first

533
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:42,880
time you first met jacques valet

534
00:23:49,270 --> 00:23:46,559
i first met jack valet in 1973

535
00:23:52,789 --> 00:23:49,280
i remember i remember it quite well

536
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:52,799
because uh i was on a date that night

537
00:23:56,710 --> 00:23:55,440
with the woman to whom i'm now married

538
00:23:59,430 --> 00:23:56,720
and

539
00:24:01,830 --> 00:23:59,440
congratulations that's good so

540
00:24:02,950 --> 00:24:01,840
this is one of our early dates i was

541
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:02,960
living

542
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:05,360
at the institute for the study of

543
00:24:11,510 --> 00:24:08,640
consciousness in in berkeley i uh was

544
00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:11,520
doing radio programs and uh jacques

545
00:24:16,710 --> 00:24:13,760
valet came over that evening and i

546
00:24:19,110 --> 00:24:16,720
interviewed him for my radio program

547
00:24:24,149 --> 00:24:21,830
the woman who is now my wife janelle

548
00:24:25,909 --> 00:24:24,159
was there with me on a date and sat in

549
00:24:28,230 --> 00:24:25,919
on the interview

550
00:24:29,909 --> 00:24:28,240
wow what did you say that was your first

551
00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:29,919
date

552
00:24:36,549 --> 00:24:34,240
impressive to meet jacques ballet as

553
00:24:38,549 --> 00:24:36,559
well i'd say that's a pretty good one

554
00:24:40,789 --> 00:24:38,559
and did that relationship then continue

555
00:24:43,590 --> 00:24:40,799
on from there with with jack obviously

556
00:24:47,269 --> 00:24:43,600
it did with you with your now wife um

557
00:24:48,549 --> 00:24:47,279
yes it did and as i mentioned i've known

558
00:24:51,909 --> 00:24:48,559
jacques

559
00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:51,919
for a long time um

560
00:24:56,230 --> 00:24:53,120
on and off

561
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:56,240
and um it's not as if we've had an

562
00:25:02,710 --> 00:24:59,440
active friendship over 50 years but

563
00:25:05,269 --> 00:25:02,720
we've been in the same circles because

564
00:25:08,230 --> 00:25:05,279
back in those days in the san francisco

565
00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:08,240
bay area there were small groups of

566
00:25:13,830 --> 00:25:10,960
people that would get together to pursue

567
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:13,840
our interests in the paranormal uh there

568
00:25:18,870 --> 00:25:16,080
was a group called the parapsychology

569
00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:18,880
research group that met on a monthly

570
00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:22,799
basis and uh jacques and i were both uh

571
00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:25,840
actively involved in that group

572
00:25:29,510 --> 00:25:27,600
excellent i'm gonna i'm gonna bring up a

573
00:25:31,110 --> 00:25:29,520
couple of other names that i if i'm

574
00:25:33,830 --> 00:25:31,120
right you met in the 70s and that would

575
00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:33,840
be russell targ and hal put off maybe as

576
00:25:37,830 --> 00:25:35,520
well are you able to tell us about how

577
00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:37,840
that how you met those guys and how the

578
00:25:40,870 --> 00:25:40,080
relationships formed

579
00:25:41,669 --> 00:25:40,880
well

580
00:25:43,990 --> 00:25:41,679
um

581
00:25:46,789 --> 00:25:44,000
once i

582
00:25:49,630 --> 00:25:46,799
established my doctoral degree program

583
00:25:51,190 --> 00:25:49,640
in parapsychology and i entered it in

584
00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:51,200
1973

585
00:25:55,990 --> 00:25:52,880
i was invited

586
00:25:57,269 --> 00:25:56,000
by a very interesting fellow arthur m

587
00:25:59,430 --> 00:25:57,279
young

588
00:26:05,190 --> 00:25:59,440
to

589
00:26:08,390 --> 00:26:05,200
in berkeley where he was establishing

590
00:26:11,350 --> 00:26:08,400
a branch of an organization a non-profit

591
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:11,360
that he created called the institute for

592
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:13,440
the study of consciousness

593
00:26:17,430 --> 00:26:14,400
so

594
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:17,440
uh i moved in there arthur young became

595
00:26:22,830 --> 00:26:19,919
something of a mentor to me a remarkable

596
00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:22,840
person the inventor of the bell

597
00:26:27,990 --> 00:26:24,880
helicopter um

598
00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:28,000
a person who had a long-standing

599
00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:30,880
interest aft he he invented the bell

600
00:26:37,750 --> 00:26:35,279
helicopter model 47 in 1947 it's the

601
00:26:39,669 --> 00:26:37,760
little one with the glass dome and the

602
00:26:42,070 --> 00:26:39,679
skids and yeah

603
00:26:45,430 --> 00:26:42,080
it was it was the first commercially

604
00:26:49,269 --> 00:26:45,440
licensed helicopter ever and at that

605
00:26:51,750 --> 00:26:49,279
point he decided he was going to pursue

606
00:26:53,269 --> 00:26:51,760
studies in what he sometimes called the

607
00:26:55,909 --> 00:26:53,279
psychopter

608
00:26:59,269 --> 00:26:55,919
in other words exploring mystical and

609
00:27:02,789 --> 00:26:59,279
psychic experiences and he had uh

610
00:27:05,669 --> 00:27:02,799
enormous wealth and uh prestige and he

611
00:27:06,870 --> 00:27:05,679
traveled all over the world and

612
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:06,880
so

613
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:09,360
he had invited me to live with him at

614
00:27:13,669 --> 00:27:11,760
the institute and

615
00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:13,679
they would have all kinds of guest

616
00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:15,840
speakers who would come to the institute

617
00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:18,880
and speak and so russell targ and hal

618
00:27:25,110 --> 00:27:21,600
put off showed up and they began talking

619
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:25,120
about their early work in remote viewing

620
00:27:30,230 --> 00:27:27,520
and they invited me why don't you come

621
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:30,240
over to sri you could see for yourself

622
00:27:34,630 --> 00:27:31,919
what we're doing so

623
00:27:35,590 --> 00:27:34,640
in 1976

624
00:27:56,870 --> 00:27:35,600
i

625
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:56,880
and

626
00:28:04,950 --> 00:27:57,840
i

627
00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:04,960
and

628
00:28:09,990 --> 00:28:07,440
at the same time they informed me that

629
00:28:11,510 --> 00:28:10,000
they had this big file sitting

630
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:11,520
in their office

631
00:28:16,870 --> 00:28:14,080
from a guy who was basically writing to

632
00:28:19,269 --> 00:28:16,880
them and saying why are you wasting your

633
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:19,279
time with this israeli psychic uri

634
00:28:23,029 --> 00:28:21,600
geller can't you see i'm the world's

635
00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:23,039
greatest psychic

636
00:28:28,830 --> 00:28:26,880
and this this was ted owens and

637
00:28:31,110 --> 00:28:28,840
there was a drought going on in

638
00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:31,120
california back then

639
00:28:35,430 --> 00:28:33,360
and ted owens had written to put off in

640
00:28:37,909 --> 00:28:35,440
target basically saying i'm going to

641
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:37,919
prove to you that i am the world's

642
00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:40,080
greatest psychic and i'm going to do

643
00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:42,720
that by ending the drought where you are

644
00:28:46,470 --> 00:28:44,640
right now in california

645
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:46,480
and they had

646
00:28:52,070 --> 00:28:49,360
their offices at sri international back

647
00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:52,080
then it was called the stanford research

648
00:28:57,350 --> 00:28:53,760
institute

649
00:29:00,070 --> 00:28:57,360
in mello park california he said

650
00:29:03,510 --> 00:29:00,080
and and it was a serious drought

651
00:29:07,029 --> 00:29:03,520
at the time i mean the uh everybody was

652
00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:07,039
not flushing their toilets wow uh

653
00:29:09,750 --> 00:29:08,960
in order to save water

654
00:29:11,430 --> 00:29:09,760
uh

655
00:29:14,070 --> 00:29:11,440
and he said i'll end this drought and

656
00:29:16,389 --> 00:29:14,080
you'll know that i did it because it's

657
00:29:18,389 --> 00:29:16,399
going to happen in just a few days

658
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:18,399
there's going to be every kind of freaky

659
00:29:23,110 --> 00:29:21,200
weather you can think of snow sleet hail

660
00:29:27,029 --> 00:29:23,120
they're going to be power blackouts in

661
00:29:30,149 --> 00:29:27,039
my signature ufo sightings

662
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:30,159
and in your local newspaper will run a

663
00:29:35,909 --> 00:29:33,440
story saying that the drought is over

664
00:29:38,870 --> 00:29:35,919
even though at that moment the stories

665
00:29:41,190 --> 00:29:38,880
in the local paper were no end to

666
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:41,200
insight to the drought

667
00:29:43,590 --> 00:29:42,000
so

668
00:29:45,350 --> 00:29:43,600
that happened

669
00:29:46,549 --> 00:29:45,360
pretty much just as he said it would

670
00:29:49,269 --> 00:29:46,559
happen

671
00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:49,279
and russell targ sent him a nice letter

672
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:52,480
saying what a great prediction thank you

673
00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:54,480
and ted owens wrote back to them and

674
00:29:58,389 --> 00:29:57,120
said hell no that was no prediction i

675
00:29:59,750 --> 00:29:58,399
caused it

676
00:30:01,510 --> 00:29:59,760
and

677
00:30:04,630 --> 00:30:01,520
at that point

678
00:30:06,470 --> 00:30:04,640
russell targ and who and hal put off who

679
00:30:10,149 --> 00:30:06,480
were getting as i mentioned funding from

680
00:30:13,350 --> 00:30:10,159
the cia the last thing they wanted was

681
00:30:15,430 --> 00:30:13,360
another flamboyant psychic doing

682
00:30:17,350 --> 00:30:15,440
psychokinesis

683
00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:17,360
because their work was

684
00:30:22,710 --> 00:30:19,760
focusing more and more on remote viewing

685
00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:22,720
i just interviewed russell recently and

686
00:30:30,110 --> 00:30:25,600
he made a point to saying remote viewing

687
00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:30,120
overall is much more effective than

688
00:30:35,350 --> 00:30:32,960
psychokinesis so why risk your career on

689
00:30:38,310 --> 00:30:35,360
psychokinesis and certainly they didn't

690
00:30:40,389 --> 00:30:38,320
want to have flamboyant psychics around

691
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:40,399
their laboratory it was not the sort of

692
00:30:44,870 --> 00:30:43,200
publicity that their funding agencies

693
00:30:47,110 --> 00:30:44,880
wanted them to have

694
00:30:50,310 --> 00:30:47,120
so he asked me would you mind taking

695
00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:50,320
this file off of our hands if you're a

696
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:52,640
promising young graduate student this

697
00:30:57,590 --> 00:30:55,520
could be a great project for you

698
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:57,600
and we don't want it here

699
00:31:02,789 --> 00:31:00,080
so i did i took all their files and i

700
00:31:05,510 --> 00:31:02,799
began my own research with ted owens at

701
00:31:08,470 --> 00:31:05,520
that point wow that's an incredible

702
00:31:10,630 --> 00:31:08,480
story i'm i'm kind of new i'm quite a

703
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:10,640
nuts and bolts researcher historically

704
00:31:15,350 --> 00:31:13,440
but in the last few months um i've been

705
00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:15,360
more interested in in the other aspect

706
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:16,480
of

707
00:31:22,789 --> 00:31:20,320
very open hence why i'm speaking to you

708
00:31:24,789 --> 00:31:22,799
today and and i watched the documentary

709
00:31:27,029 --> 00:31:24,799
third eye spies which obviously features

710
00:31:28,710 --> 00:31:27,039
russell and hal you know prominently and

711
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:28,720
so that really opened up a new door for

712
00:31:31,269 --> 00:31:29,600
me so

713
00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:31,279
to hear things stories like that from

714
00:31:35,669 --> 00:31:33,200
from yourself is absolutely incredible

715
00:31:38,549 --> 00:31:35,679
so so thank you for sharing that

716
00:31:41,110 --> 00:31:38,559
well are you in uh britain right now i

717
00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:41,120
am in i'm in the north of england yeah

718
00:31:45,509 --> 00:31:43,840
because my next encounter with ted owens

719
00:31:47,430 --> 00:31:45,519
took place in london

720
00:31:50,950 --> 00:31:47,440
oh please don't tell

721
00:31:51,830 --> 00:31:50,960
a fact what what happened this would be

722
00:31:56,070 --> 00:31:51,840
the

723
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,350
76

724
00:32:02,070 --> 00:32:00,710
and um

725
00:32:05,430 --> 00:32:02,080
after

726
00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:05,440
february was as i mentioned my yeah when

727
00:32:09,269 --> 00:32:07,200
they gave me the files

728
00:32:11,029 --> 00:32:09,279
there was an organization called the

729
00:32:13,830 --> 00:32:11,039
para science

730
00:32:16,149 --> 00:32:13,840
institute that sponsored a conference at

731
00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:16,159
the university of london

732
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:18,960
uh in that summer and there was a

733
00:32:24,789 --> 00:32:22,480
drought going on in london at the time a

734
00:32:27,269 --> 00:32:24,799
serious drought so much so that they had

735
00:32:30,149 --> 00:32:27,279
to bring water in by truck to some of

736
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:30,159
the communities outside of london

737
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:32,880
and once again the papers were saying no

738
00:32:36,549 --> 00:32:33,679
end

739
00:32:38,789 --> 00:32:36,559
to insight to the drought and

740
00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:38,799
what had happened was

741
00:32:43,029 --> 00:32:40,080
that

742
00:32:45,750 --> 00:32:43,039
a little news article about ted owens

743
00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:45,760
ending this drought in california got

744
00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:48,640
put into a popular magazine at the time

745
00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:50,640
and no longer being published called

746
00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:52,640
psychic magazine

747
00:32:56,549 --> 00:32:54,880
in fact i think it was put off entire

748
00:32:57,750 --> 00:32:56,559
leaked the story and it got in the

749
00:33:01,029 --> 00:32:57,760
magazine

750
00:33:03,110 --> 00:33:01,039
and people in london

751
00:33:05,509 --> 00:33:03,120
were experiencing a drought so they

752
00:33:07,909 --> 00:33:05,519
contacted ted owens and said would you

753
00:33:09,509 --> 00:33:07,919
mind ending our drought while you're

754
00:33:13,190 --> 00:33:09,519
ending droughts

755
00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:13,200
and they ended up inviting him to attend

756
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:15,760
the parasites conference

757
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:18,960
the university of london people like

758
00:33:24,070 --> 00:33:22,080
john king i think was his name was a

759
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:24,080
mathematician who had worked with the

760
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:26,640
regeller and had written a book

761
00:33:30,389 --> 00:33:28,399
very favorable to

762
00:33:33,029 --> 00:33:30,399
psychic functioning although later he

763
00:33:35,509 --> 00:33:33,039
changed his mind because he concluded

764
00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:35,519
that it couldn't be electromagnetic and

765
00:33:39,470 --> 00:33:37,760
as far as he was concerned there was no

766
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:39,480
other possibility if it's not

767
00:33:43,990 --> 00:33:42,480
electromagnetic it can't be real but

768
00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:44,000
that aside

769
00:33:50,470 --> 00:33:48,640
the day that ted owens arrived in london

770
00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:50,480
i was already there

771
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:52,640
i was staying with friends and they told

772
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:53,760
me

773
00:33:59,190 --> 00:33:56,080
if you want to have your picture

774
00:34:00,950 --> 00:33:59,200
on the front page of the london times

775
00:34:03,669 --> 00:34:00,960
all you have to do is go down to

776
00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:03,679
piccadilly circus carrying an umbrella

777
00:34:07,909 --> 00:34:05,760
people will think you're crazy and

778
00:34:09,430 --> 00:34:07,919
they'll take a pic your picture and

779
00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:09,440
you'll get on the front page of the

780
00:34:13,750 --> 00:34:10,800
newspaper

781
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:13,760
that's how serious the drought was

782
00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:16,800
but the day ted owens arrived it started

783
00:34:22,950 --> 00:34:19,280
raining in torrance

784
00:34:27,109 --> 00:34:22,960
in in london so much so that the london

785
00:34:29,190 --> 00:34:27,119
tube uh the subway there got shut down

786
00:34:32,389 --> 00:34:29,200
because of the rain and

787
00:34:36,310 --> 00:34:32,399
the local papers published a story as

788
00:34:37,270 --> 00:34:36,320
before saying the drought is now over

789
00:34:38,069 --> 00:34:37,280
so

790
00:34:40,230 --> 00:34:38,079
uh

791
00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:40,240
so that it was the circumstance in which

792
00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:43,599
i met him but he was a

793
00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:47,520
flamboyant american um big

794
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:51,280
man with a big white beard and a booming

795
00:34:56,629 --> 00:34:54,960
voice and he was a member of mensah very

796
00:35:00,630 --> 00:34:56,639
high intelligence

797
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:00,640
and he was also very peculiar he came on

798
00:35:06,310 --> 00:35:04,000
to the stage of the parasites conference

799
00:35:08,310 --> 00:35:06,320
carrying a little we're not carrying

800
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:08,320
pulling a little

801
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:11,520
red toy wagon behind him

802
00:35:17,349 --> 00:35:14,320
stacked high with papers and he said

803
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:17,359
these papers are all the documentation

804
00:35:21,910 --> 00:35:20,160
of the many demonstrations i've done

805
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:21,920
proving that i'm

806
00:35:27,870 --> 00:35:25,200
the world's great psychic the pk man the

807
00:35:29,430 --> 00:35:27,880
ambassador from earth to the

808
00:35:32,069 --> 00:35:29,440
extraterrestrials

809
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:32,079
and you being british would probably

810
00:35:36,150 --> 00:35:34,560
appreciate the british audience did not

811
00:35:39,349 --> 00:35:36,160
like that

812
00:35:42,069 --> 00:35:39,359
i yeah i know what you mean

813
00:35:44,390 --> 00:35:42,079
you know brash americans are not

814
00:35:46,069 --> 00:35:44,400
necessarily at all

815
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:46,079
compatible with

816
00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:47,200
london

817
00:35:51,510 --> 00:35:49,680
and british sensibilities and

818
00:35:53,430 --> 00:35:51,520
he was practically

819
00:35:55,829 --> 00:35:53,440
in fact not practically

820
00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:55,839
literally pulled off the stage in the

821
00:36:00,150 --> 00:35:58,400
middle of his talk

822
00:36:03,270 --> 00:36:00,160
and

823
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:03,280
it was a very weird circumstance they

824
00:36:08,390 --> 00:36:06,480
had brought him on to the stage early

825
00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:08,400
because the

826
00:36:13,750 --> 00:36:11,040
speaker didn't show up well fine but

827
00:36:15,589 --> 00:36:13,760
then the speaker came and so they said

828
00:36:19,270 --> 00:36:15,599
you have to leave the stage now our

829
00:36:21,990 --> 00:36:19,280
speaker is here which was very uh

830
00:36:24,310 --> 00:36:22,000
disconcerting and humiliating to him to

831
00:36:27,109 --> 00:36:24,320
be honest and

832
00:36:29,589 --> 00:36:27,119
at that point i got up and i said well i

833
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:29,599
know you're having a hard time

834
00:36:34,550 --> 00:36:32,560
understanding this man but i can testify

835
00:36:36,870 --> 00:36:34,560
because i know put off and targ

836
00:36:39,990 --> 00:36:36,880
personally about what he had already

837
00:36:42,790 --> 00:36:40,000
done in california and at that point

838
00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:42,800
because i defended him publicly in a

839
00:36:47,349 --> 00:36:45,280
moment of humiliation and embarrassment

840
00:36:49,589 --> 00:36:47,359
we became good friends

841
00:36:52,310 --> 00:36:49,599
and we had a good bond and a good

842
00:36:57,589 --> 00:36:52,320
working relationship for the next

843
00:36:58,790 --> 00:36:57,599
11 years uh until his death in 1987.

844
00:37:00,630 --> 00:36:58,800
wow

845
00:37:03,270 --> 00:37:00,640
it's funny you mentioned droughts in

846
00:37:05,910 --> 00:37:03,280
london and all i have in my head is it's

847
00:37:07,589 --> 00:37:05,920
always raining here so

848
00:37:09,670 --> 00:37:07,599
it must have been a strange year that

849
00:37:11,750 --> 00:37:09,680
year

850
00:37:13,990 --> 00:37:11,760
um now let's if it's okay with you i'd

851
00:37:16,150 --> 00:37:14,000
like to bring it back to ufos and a lot

852
00:37:18,630 --> 00:37:16,160
more up to date because you recently did

853
00:37:20,710 --> 00:37:18,640
two interviews or a two-part interview

854
00:37:22,790 --> 00:37:20,720
with colin kelleher who i find

855
00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:22,800
absolutely fascinating and i have to say

856
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:25,280
your two interviews were with some of

857
00:37:29,510 --> 00:37:27,119
the best i've seen in in recent times

858
00:37:30,310 --> 00:37:29,520
with columns so um thank you for those

859
00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:30,320
but

860
00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:32,640
my question would be after listening and

861
00:37:37,829 --> 00:37:34,079
speaking with column what are we what

862
00:37:41,270 --> 00:37:37,839
your views are on skinwalker ranch

863
00:37:43,430 --> 00:37:41,280
well i take collum as a very serious

864
00:37:46,190 --> 00:37:43,440
highly educated

865
00:37:47,990 --> 00:37:46,200
scientific investigator who was given

866
00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:48,000
responsibility for

867
00:38:24,550 --> 00:37:49,200
a

868
00:38:27,670 --> 00:38:24,560
government so

869
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:27,680
i'm not sure about about that but even

870
00:38:33,510 --> 00:38:29,520
if he didn't we know that these

871
00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:33,520
phenomena are very elusive and yeah

872
00:38:38,470 --> 00:38:35,280
there are people who are inclined to

873
00:38:40,790 --> 00:38:38,480
disbelieve some of the bizarre stories

874
00:38:42,790 --> 00:38:40,800
that he had there but as far from my

875
00:38:44,550 --> 00:38:42,800
point of view they're no more bizarre

876
00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:44,560
than the sorts of things i've already

877
00:38:47,589 --> 00:38:45,599
been

878
00:38:50,230 --> 00:38:47,599
telling you about with regard to ted

879
00:38:51,990 --> 00:38:50,240
owens and the phenomena he uh was

880
00:38:54,950 --> 00:38:52,000
involved in so

881
00:38:57,510 --> 00:38:54,960
i i i'm perfectly comfortable taking

882
00:39:00,470 --> 00:38:57,520
everything that column said in those

883
00:39:02,790 --> 00:39:00,480
interviews at face value

884
00:39:04,630 --> 00:39:02,800
yeah i agree completely because

885
00:39:07,030 --> 00:39:04,640
you know we do hear people say well this

886
00:39:09,349 --> 00:39:07,040
can't be true or that can't be true it's

887
00:39:11,109 --> 00:39:09,359
too outlandish and and i agree with you

888
00:39:13,030 --> 00:39:11,119
we have to keep an open mind you know we

889
00:39:14,870 --> 00:39:13,040
may not be able to prove it but at the

890
00:39:15,829 --> 00:39:14,880
same time we may not be able to disprove

891
00:39:17,829 --> 00:39:15,839
it so

892
00:39:19,670 --> 00:39:17,839
i'm with you on that one so

893
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:19,680
um now one thing you mentioned earlier

894
00:39:23,270 --> 00:39:21,520
and i have to say i wanted to leave this

895
00:39:25,510 --> 00:39:23,280
towards the end is

896
00:39:26,950 --> 00:39:25,520
the bigelow institute of consciousness

897
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:26,960
studies

898
00:39:32,069 --> 00:39:29,040
essay competition that you won the grand

899
00:39:33,670 --> 00:39:32,079
prize off so congratulations uh

900
00:39:36,390 --> 00:39:33,680
i know that could not have been an easy

901
00:39:37,589 --> 00:39:36,400
competition to to even place high up in

902
00:39:39,190 --> 00:39:37,599
so um

903
00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:39,200
i wanted to talk about your paper which

904
00:39:42,230 --> 00:39:40,640
i've scanned through i have to say i

905
00:39:43,750 --> 00:39:42,240
hold my hands up i've not read it

906
00:39:45,190 --> 00:39:43,760
thoroughly through

907
00:39:46,870 --> 00:39:45,200
and even if i did i don't think i'd

908
00:39:48,950 --> 00:39:46,880
understand a lot of it is there any way

909
00:39:52,710 --> 00:39:48,960
you could break it down for us to you

910
00:39:57,990 --> 00:39:56,630
well it the essay ran about 100 pages

911
00:40:00,710 --> 00:39:58,000
and

912
00:40:02,630 --> 00:40:00,720
i start the essay talking about the

913
00:40:04,630 --> 00:40:02,640
personal experience that i just shared

914
00:40:07,510 --> 00:40:04,640
with you earlier regarding my great

915
00:40:11,190 --> 00:40:07,520
uncle harry who came to me in a dream

916
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:11,200
and as a result of that dream my whole

917
00:40:16,470 --> 00:40:13,760
life changed directions

918
00:40:19,270 --> 00:40:16,480
and one of the main points i make in the

919
00:40:22,230 --> 00:40:19,280
essay is that the afterlife is such a

920
00:40:25,030 --> 00:40:22,240
powerful thing when it's encountered

921
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:25,040
that many people have had their lives

922
00:40:31,589 --> 00:40:28,240
changed dramatically i give

923
00:40:35,510 --> 00:40:31,599
some examples one would be bishop james

924
00:40:37,349 --> 00:40:35,520
pike who was the episcopalian bishop of

925
00:40:40,230 --> 00:40:37,359
california

926
00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:40,240
back in the 1960s

927
00:40:45,589 --> 00:40:43,440
his son died they had been in england as

928
00:40:48,230 --> 00:40:45,599
a matter of fact i believe in cambridge

929
00:40:51,990 --> 00:40:48,240
together for three weeks and then his

930
00:40:54,630 --> 00:40:52,000
son left and went back to new york and

931
00:40:57,109 --> 00:40:54,640
ended his life by suicide

932
00:40:59,990 --> 00:40:57,119
in a hotel room shot himself

933
00:41:01,670 --> 00:41:00,000
and bishop pike was devastated as you

934
00:41:04,309 --> 00:41:01,680
might imagine

935
00:41:08,230 --> 00:41:04,319
the anglican church in england has

936
00:41:11,430 --> 00:41:08,240
actually had a fairly good close working

937
00:41:16,230 --> 00:41:11,440
relationship for decades with the

938
00:41:18,470 --> 00:41:16,240
spiritualist community in england and so

939
00:41:19,349 --> 00:41:18,480
what the next happened to bishop pike

940
00:41:24,710 --> 00:41:19,359
was

941
00:41:26,790 --> 00:41:24,720
in the same apartment in cambridge where

942
00:41:29,829 --> 00:41:26,800
his son had been with him and he they

943
00:41:31,109 --> 00:41:29,839
counted over 50 different poltergeist

944
00:41:33,190 --> 00:41:31,119
events

945
00:41:36,870 --> 00:41:33,200
objects moving around this little

946
00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:36,880
apartment over the next three weeks and

947
00:41:43,109 --> 00:41:39,200
that got his attention and he began

948
00:41:45,109 --> 00:41:43,119
asking some of the british anglicans uh

949
00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:45,119
what they thought of it and they

950
00:41:51,349 --> 00:41:48,240
encouraged him to go see a medium aina

951
00:41:53,910 --> 00:41:51,359
twig who was a well-known british medium

952
00:41:57,109 --> 00:41:53,920
and he had they arranged for him to have

953
00:41:59,829 --> 00:41:57,119
a session with aina twig and in that

954
00:42:02,870 --> 00:41:59,839
session his son came through

955
00:42:06,309 --> 00:42:02,880
in a very convincing way and also

956
00:42:09,349 --> 00:42:06,319
who came through was his son's godfather

957
00:42:12,550 --> 00:42:09,359
a close friend of bishop pike the famous

958
00:42:13,990 --> 00:42:12,560
theologian paul tillich

959
00:42:16,230 --> 00:42:14,000
and so

960
00:42:18,870 --> 00:42:16,240
bishop pike is having these intimate

961
00:42:21,430 --> 00:42:18,880
conversations with paul phillip and with

962
00:42:23,750 --> 00:42:21,440
his own son through the medium i'm a

963
00:42:26,470 --> 00:42:23,760
twig well

964
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:26,480
as a result of that he ended up

965
00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:28,800
publishing a book about it called the

966
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:32,640
other side and he resigned as bishop of

967
00:42:37,109 --> 00:42:34,560
california a very

968
00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:37,119
prominent powerful position within the

969
00:42:43,829 --> 00:42:40,480
episcopal church so that he could pursue

970
00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:43,839
his studies of spiritualism and also his

971
00:42:48,309 --> 00:42:47,119
studies of the origins of christianity

972
00:42:49,990 --> 00:42:48,319
more

973
00:42:51,109 --> 00:42:50,000
deeply

974
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:51,119
now it

975
00:42:55,990 --> 00:42:53,200
for people who don't know the story he

976
00:42:58,309 --> 00:42:56,000
went to israel to research the origins

977
00:43:00,950 --> 00:42:58,319
of christianity he got lost in the

978
00:43:02,710 --> 00:43:00,960
desert about a year or two later and

979
00:43:03,750 --> 00:43:02,720
died and

980
00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:03,760
um

981
00:43:11,430 --> 00:43:08,640
asked can you help find bishop bike

982
00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:11,440
while he was lost in the desert and she

983
00:43:16,069 --> 00:43:13,680
in trance

984
00:43:17,829 --> 00:43:16,079
uh began describing exactly

985
00:43:19,829 --> 00:43:17,839
what had happened to him how he was

986
00:43:23,349 --> 00:43:19,839
trying to climb a cliff and it felt

987
00:43:26,150 --> 00:43:23,359
fallen from the cliff and uh that turned

988
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:26,160
out to be an accurate description

989
00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:27,920
wow that almost sounds like it ties in a

990
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:30,160
bit with remote viewing as well

991
00:43:35,430 --> 00:43:32,880
yeah being able to locate someone

992
00:43:38,470 --> 00:43:35,440
well there you go you see

993
00:43:41,349 --> 00:43:38,480
it's very hard for parapsychologists

994
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:41,359
when these kinds of events to occur to

995
00:43:47,349 --> 00:43:44,480
determine was in a twig in touch with

996
00:43:52,390 --> 00:43:47,359
the spirit of bishop pike or was she

997
00:43:58,710 --> 00:43:55,829
as a matter of fact i don't think

998
00:44:00,870 --> 00:43:58,720
from a philosophical perspective uh

999
00:44:04,390 --> 00:44:00,880
that's not an easy question to answer

1000
00:44:06,950 --> 00:44:04,400
it's almost impossible to answer that

1001
00:44:10,710 --> 00:44:06,960
question but if you're willing to accept

1002
00:44:16,630 --> 00:44:12,630
it makes a lot of sense to accept the

1003
00:44:18,550 --> 00:44:16,640
validity of after the afterlife as well

1004
00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:18,560
yeah i just find it very intriguing how

1005
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:21,680
all these separate areas of study do

1006
00:44:25,670 --> 00:44:23,760
have these kind of crossover

1007
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:25,680
elements to them and and every now and

1008
00:44:28,630 --> 00:44:27,599
again you you do see the two coming

1009
00:44:30,390 --> 00:44:28,640
together

1010
00:44:31,990 --> 00:44:30,400
and and in that conversation there you

1011
00:44:33,190 --> 00:44:32,000
just were talking quite a bit about

1012
00:44:34,870 --> 00:44:33,200
religion and

1013
00:44:36,390 --> 00:44:34,880
so that may just made me think they have

1014
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:36,400
a question about

1015
00:44:40,309 --> 00:44:38,319
how do you see the future if we do start

1016
00:44:42,710 --> 00:44:40,319
to see disclosure of a non-human

1017
00:44:44,230 --> 00:44:42,720
intelligence how do you think or how do

1018
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:44,240
you see the the reaction or the

1019
00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:46,720
relationship with with religion how do

1020
00:44:53,109 --> 00:44:49,680
you think that will go in the future

1021
00:44:55,030 --> 00:44:53,119
well some people would suggest that um

1022
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:55,040
what's happening i think carl jung

1023
00:45:01,190 --> 00:44:58,240
suggested that ufos represent the birth

1024
00:45:03,910 --> 00:45:01,200
of a new religion the idea of gods in

1025
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:03,920
the sky or maybe

1026
00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:05,920
i certainly hear from some i'm in touch

1027
00:45:09,270 --> 00:45:06,720
with

1028
00:45:12,309 --> 00:45:09,280
various people who think of themselves

1029
00:45:13,270 --> 00:45:12,319
as contactees people who claim that they

1030
00:45:16,829 --> 00:45:13,280
have been

1031
00:45:20,950 --> 00:45:16,839
journeyed to other planets aboard

1032
00:45:23,829 --> 00:45:20,960
craft piloted by alien beings who are

1033
00:45:26,550 --> 00:45:23,839
like us like humans and

1034
00:45:30,069 --> 00:45:26,560
uh they describe these beings as being

1035
00:45:31,510 --> 00:45:30,079
highly evolved spiritual beings godlike

1036
00:45:34,710 --> 00:45:31,520
in the way so

1037
00:45:37,910 --> 00:45:34,720
you know ascended masters or god-like

1038
00:45:40,150 --> 00:45:37,920
beings deities devas there are many

1039
00:45:42,630 --> 00:45:40,160
different words diamonds

1040
00:45:45,109 --> 00:45:42,640
uh for these beings who who live in the

1041
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:45,119
sky and are here to

1042
00:45:51,109 --> 00:45:47,760
have a benevolent interest in

1043
00:45:52,950 --> 00:45:51,119
what occurs here on this planet

1044
00:45:54,790 --> 00:45:52,960
it could well be the birth of a new

1045
00:45:57,109 --> 00:45:54,800
religion and of course

1046
00:45:59,990 --> 00:45:57,119
that will be threatening i know people

1047
00:46:03,270 --> 00:46:00,000
who identify with what they call the

1048
00:46:06,150 --> 00:46:03,280
traditionalist viewpoint in which they

1049
00:46:09,349 --> 00:46:06,160
consider these alien beings to be

1050
00:46:12,870 --> 00:46:09,359
supernatural beings of a different kind

1051
00:46:15,270 --> 00:46:12,880
not diamondic but demonic

1052
00:46:17,510 --> 00:46:15,280
and they say you know we got to be

1053
00:46:19,829 --> 00:46:17,520
careful and and that there are

1054
00:46:23,270 --> 00:46:19,839
all sorts of pitfalls and snares

1055
00:46:25,589 --> 00:46:23,280
associated with these beings so i and

1056
00:46:27,270 --> 00:46:25,599
some people say yes that's a

1057
00:46:29,910 --> 00:46:27,280
it's a good thing that they should come

1058
00:46:32,230 --> 00:46:29,920
because these old traditional religions

1059
00:46:34,950 --> 00:46:32,240
have misled us and we need a new

1060
00:46:37,750 --> 00:46:34,960
religion so we can discover the truth

1061
00:46:39,750 --> 00:46:37,760
and the traditionalists say no the new

1062
00:46:42,150 --> 00:46:39,760
religions are going to mislead you and

1063
00:46:44,309 --> 00:46:42,160
take you down the wrong path we need to

1064
00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:44,319
stick to the tried and true

1065
00:46:47,510 --> 00:46:46,160
understandings of

1066
00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:47,520
the ancient

1067
00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:49,839
religious teachings so there will

1068
00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:52,240
certainly be an uproar

1069
00:46:56,550 --> 00:46:53,280
i'm

1070
00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:56,560
inclined to think of myself as an

1071
00:47:01,670 --> 00:46:59,040
empiricist as someone who says let's see

1072
00:47:03,990 --> 00:47:01,680
where the evidence leads us let's see

1073
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:04,000
what we can learn from the actual

1074
00:47:10,230 --> 00:47:07,200
observations that we don't need to

1075
00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:10,240
make any kind of religious or spiritual

1076
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:12,640
assumptions just yet

1077
00:47:16,630 --> 00:47:14,960
and and from that point of view

1078
00:47:20,150 --> 00:47:16,640
it seems as if

1079
00:47:23,109 --> 00:47:20,160
there's a variety of encounters that

1080
00:47:25,829 --> 00:47:23,119
people have some of them seem to be as

1081
00:47:29,190 --> 00:47:25,839
described by one group of people you

1082
00:47:31,670 --> 00:47:29,200
know very wise and benevolent beings and

1083
00:47:32,790 --> 00:47:31,680
other encounters seem to be

1084
00:47:35,190 --> 00:47:32,800
deadly

1085
00:47:37,670 --> 00:47:35,200
for people whether it's deliberate or

1086
00:47:40,630 --> 00:47:37,680
accidental maybe has yet to be

1087
00:47:43,109 --> 00:47:40,640
determined but it it certainly seems as

1088
00:47:44,470 --> 00:47:43,119
if some of these aliens are not exactly

1089
00:47:46,470 --> 00:47:44,480
friendly

1090
00:47:49,030 --> 00:47:46,480
yeah absolutely and we do hear about

1091
00:47:49,910 --> 00:47:49,040
negative biological effects on people

1092
00:47:51,510 --> 00:47:49,920
and

1093
00:47:53,109 --> 00:47:51,520
i think in the past we've probably even

1094
00:47:55,030 --> 00:47:53,119
unfortunately heard of deaths relating

1095
00:47:57,430 --> 00:47:55,040
to interactions uh

1096
00:47:59,589 --> 00:47:57,440
luckily that's not not too often

1097
00:48:02,150 --> 00:47:59,599
um jeffrey before we go i do have a

1098
00:48:03,349 --> 00:48:02,160
couple of uh follower questions um from

1099
00:48:04,630 --> 00:48:03,359
instagram

1100
00:48:07,109 --> 00:48:04,640
if that's okay

1101
00:48:09,510 --> 00:48:07,119
um now the first one comes from carly

1102
00:48:11,270 --> 00:48:09,520
monster and and carly asks

1103
00:48:14,150 --> 00:48:11,280
has jeffrey found in his study of the

1104
00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:14,160
human consciousness aka the soul

1105
00:48:17,990 --> 00:48:16,160
surviving bodily death

1106
00:48:20,230 --> 00:48:18,000
what are some of the types of journeys

1107
00:48:22,630 --> 00:48:20,240
the soul can typically go on after

1108
00:48:25,670 --> 00:48:22,640
physical death

1109
00:48:29,109 --> 00:48:25,680
that's a wonderful question

1110
00:48:31,670 --> 00:48:29,119
i think the the most reliable answer

1111
00:48:34,069 --> 00:48:31,680
that i know of to that question comes

1112
00:48:35,589 --> 00:48:34,079
from a book called the road to

1113
00:48:37,109 --> 00:48:35,599
immortality

1114
00:48:39,349 --> 00:48:37,119
which was

1115
00:48:43,190 --> 00:48:39,359
a channeled book or a book that came

1116
00:48:44,630 --> 00:48:43,200
through automatic writing in the 1930s

1117
00:48:47,349 --> 00:48:44,640
by

1118
00:48:50,390 --> 00:48:47,359
an automatic writer or the term that was

1119
00:48:53,430 --> 00:48:50,400
used in those days as automatist named

1120
00:48:54,549 --> 00:48:53,440
geraldine cummins who was an irish woman

1121
00:48:55,589 --> 00:48:54,559
living in

1122
00:48:57,670 --> 00:48:55,599
england

1123
00:48:59,670 --> 00:48:57,680
and

1124
00:49:02,630 --> 00:48:59,680
who was coming through her

1125
00:49:07,030 --> 00:49:02,640
was apparently frederick myers who died

1126
00:49:09,589 --> 00:49:07,040
in 1902 i think 1903. he was a great

1127
00:49:12,309 --> 00:49:09,599
psychical researcher one of the founders

1128
00:49:15,030 --> 00:49:12,319
of the society for psychical research

1129
00:49:17,430 --> 00:49:15,040
and the author of the classic book that

1130
00:49:19,829 --> 00:49:17,440
still regarded as a great classic over a

1131
00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:19,839
hundred years later called human

1132
00:49:25,109 --> 00:49:22,480
personality and its survival of bodily

1133
00:49:27,990 --> 00:49:25,119
death and in this book

1134
00:49:30,630 --> 00:49:28,000
the road to immortality he describes his

1135
00:49:33,430 --> 00:49:30,640
experiences in the afterlife

1136
00:49:35,990 --> 00:49:33,440
over had been about almost 30 years or

1137
00:49:38,710 --> 00:49:36,000
so since he had died and he talks about

1138
00:49:43,109 --> 00:49:38,720
the various levels and planes and the

1139
00:49:45,589 --> 00:49:43,119
idea of group souls and the idea of a

1140
00:49:46,950 --> 00:49:45,599
kind of spiritual evolution that one

1141
00:49:50,390 --> 00:49:46,960
pursues

1142
00:49:52,549 --> 00:49:50,400
it's a description that seems to be

1143
00:49:54,309 --> 00:49:52,559
quite compatible with with many other

1144
00:49:55,990 --> 00:49:54,319
descriptions of

1145
00:49:59,109 --> 00:49:56,000
this sort that come through the

1146
00:50:01,589 --> 00:49:59,119
channeled literature and

1147
00:50:04,069 --> 00:50:01,599
other sources such as the egyptian book

1148
00:50:07,030 --> 00:50:04,079
of the dead and the tibetan book of the

1149
00:50:09,750 --> 00:50:07,040
dead the idea that there is an onward

1150
00:50:11,910 --> 00:50:09,760
progression of the soul and

1151
00:50:18,069 --> 00:50:11,920
ultimately

1152
00:50:20,630 --> 00:50:18,079
one might say that

1153
00:50:21,990 --> 00:50:20,640
the very highest realization is sort of

1154
00:50:24,790 --> 00:50:22,000
unity with

1155
00:50:28,150 --> 00:50:24,800
the one consciousness that sees through

1156
00:50:30,150 --> 00:50:28,160
the eyes of all living creatures

1157
00:50:32,230 --> 00:50:30,160
yeah absolutely fascinating i'm sure

1158
00:50:35,750 --> 00:50:32,240
carly will be very happy with the answer

1159
00:50:40,790 --> 00:50:35,760
and and finally um salazar asks can

1160
00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:42,150
surely

1161
00:50:47,349 --> 00:50:44,640
consciousness doesn't seem to have any

1162
00:50:50,150 --> 00:50:47,359
limitations whatsoever

1163
00:50:51,750 --> 00:50:50,160
i would agree with the dictum of john

1164
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:51,760
lilly who i had the pleasure of

1165
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:54,480
interviewing several decades ago

1166
00:50:58,470 --> 00:50:55,920
in in which

1167
00:51:01,829 --> 00:50:58,480
he said that

1168
00:51:03,750 --> 00:51:01,839
the only limits to human consciousness

1169
00:51:06,870 --> 00:51:03,760
are limits that we

1170
00:51:08,390 --> 00:51:06,880
ourselves impose and those are limits to

1171
00:51:11,430 --> 00:51:08,400
be transcended

1172
00:51:14,069 --> 00:51:11,440
that we we don't know the outer range of

1173
00:51:17,349 --> 00:51:14,079
what consciousness can do we know that

1174
00:51:18,990 --> 00:51:17,359
people can experience precognition

1175
00:51:22,150 --> 00:51:19,000
looking into the future and

1176
00:51:25,349 --> 00:51:22,160
retrocognition looking into the past and

1177
00:51:28,950 --> 00:51:25,359
remote viewing describing

1178
00:51:31,750 --> 00:51:28,960
as ingo swan did the situation on

1179
00:51:35,030 --> 00:51:31,760
jupiter before the space probes arrived

1180
00:51:38,230 --> 00:51:35,040
he described rings around jupiter that

1181
00:51:39,030 --> 00:51:38,240
nobody knew about at the time

1182
00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:39,040
so

1183
00:51:45,990 --> 00:51:43,440
consciousness is is capable of

1184
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:46,000
doing things that we can only begin to

1185
00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:48,000
imagine

1186
00:51:53,270 --> 00:51:50,880
absolutely fascinating well jeffrey uh i

1187
00:51:55,109 --> 00:51:53,280
just wanted to say thank you so much for

1188
00:51:56,950 --> 00:51:55,119
an absolutely wonderful conversation it

1189
00:51:58,790 --> 00:51:56,960
really means the world to me that you

1190
00:52:00,710 --> 00:51:58,800
joined me tonight and

1191
00:52:02,710 --> 00:52:00,720
are you able to give us any insight as

1192
00:52:04,790 --> 00:52:02,720
to what's coming up on on your channel

1193
00:52:06,790 --> 00:52:04,800
on new thinking aloud

1194
00:52:10,390 --> 00:52:06,800
well as a matter of fact i'll be doing

1195
00:52:14,230 --> 00:52:10,400
another live stream myself on sunday

1196
00:52:17,829 --> 00:52:14,240
uh february 27th people can go to

1197
00:52:20,069 --> 00:52:17,839
new thinking aloud and

1198
00:52:23,470 --> 00:52:20,079
get information about that it's

1199
00:52:29,990 --> 00:52:26,870
a-l-l-o-w-e-d not a-l-o-u-d but new

1200
00:52:30,870 --> 00:52:30,000
thinking aloud is all one word

1201
00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:30,880
and

1202
00:52:36,549 --> 00:52:34,640
now to find out about that live stream

1203
00:52:38,790 --> 00:52:36,559
i think if they go into community

1204
00:52:41,589 --> 00:52:38,800
they'll find the link to it there

1205
00:52:43,910 --> 00:52:41,599
because it doesn't get

1206
00:52:47,109 --> 00:52:43,920
public until we go public 10 minutes in

1207
00:52:50,549 --> 00:52:47,119
advance but i'm in usa mountain time

1208
00:52:54,150 --> 00:52:50,559
it'll be right about this time 11 a.m my

1209
00:52:55,670 --> 00:52:54,160
time is when we'll begin that

1210
00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:55,680
in three days

1211
00:52:58,870 --> 00:52:57,680
from today also

1212
00:53:00,549 --> 00:52:58,880
your

1213
00:53:03,109 --> 00:53:00,559
listeners and viewers might be

1214
00:53:04,630 --> 00:53:03,119
interested in subscribing to our free

1215
00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:04,640
newsletter

1216
00:53:08,710 --> 00:53:06,960
which is comes out every week announcing

1217
00:53:10,069 --> 00:53:08,720
in advance the

1218
00:53:11,990 --> 00:53:10,079
videos

1219
00:53:14,710 --> 00:53:12,000
another one that will be released next

1220
00:53:17,430 --> 00:53:14,720
week for example is british psychical

1221
00:53:21,910 --> 00:53:17,440
researcher callum cooper is interviewing

1222
00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:21,920
me about my background in parapsychology

1223
00:53:25,430 --> 00:53:24,000
there'll be another video with russell

1224
00:53:28,069 --> 00:53:25,440
targ

1225
00:53:31,349 --> 00:53:28,079
released next week on new thinking aloud

1226
00:53:35,270 --> 00:53:31,359
and also a video with

1227
00:53:37,430 --> 00:53:35,280
sally rhein feather the daughter of jb

1228
00:53:40,390 --> 00:53:37,440
ryan who is considered the founder of

1229
00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:40,400
modern parapsychology sally is in her

1230
00:53:46,790 --> 00:53:43,040
90s and she's going to talk about

1231
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:46,800
the legacy of her father jb ryan

1232
00:53:53,109 --> 00:53:50,160
and finally since you asked on saturday

1233
00:53:56,309 --> 00:53:53,119
i'll be releasing an old re-releasing an

1234
00:53:59,030 --> 00:53:56,319
old interview with james harder who was

1235
00:54:02,710 --> 00:53:59,040
one of my professors at berkeley when i

1236
00:54:06,309 --> 00:54:02,720
was a graduate student there he was the

1237
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:06,319
research director of a ufo organization

1238
00:54:12,309 --> 00:54:09,760
now defunct to my knowledge called apro

1239
00:54:15,030 --> 00:54:12,319
the aerial phenomena research

1240
00:54:17,829 --> 00:54:15,040
organization he was one of the leading

1241
00:54:21,270 --> 00:54:17,839
researchers engaged in hypnotic

1242
00:54:24,870 --> 00:54:21,280
regression of ufo contactees a man who

1243
00:54:27,190 --> 00:54:24,880
had testified before congress about ufos

1244
00:54:30,710 --> 00:54:27,200
who was involved in

1245
00:54:33,349 --> 00:54:30,720
uh the investigations of the famous 1973

1246
00:54:36,309 --> 00:54:33,359
sightings and pass or abductions in

1247
00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:36,319
pascagoula mississippi and many others

1248
00:54:40,950 --> 00:54:39,520
so i'm re-releasing that video uh this

1249
00:54:43,109 --> 00:54:40,960
saturday

1250
00:54:45,030 --> 00:54:43,119
oh that's wonderful and all of the links

1251
00:54:46,790 --> 00:54:45,040
that that you've just mentioned will be

1252
00:54:49,829 --> 00:54:46,800
in the description of this video below

1253
00:54:52,470 --> 00:54:49,839
so anybody watching can go and find you

1254
00:54:54,950 --> 00:54:52,480
quite easily um well listen jeffrey

1255
00:54:56,549 --> 00:54:54,960
thank you so much once again and please

1256
00:54:59,109 --> 00:54:56,559
stay in touch i'd love to speak to you

1257
00:55:01,190 --> 00:54:59,119
again in the future and enjoy the rest

1258
00:55:02,230 --> 00:55:01,200
of your day and and for now thank you

1259
00:55:04,950 --> 00:55:02,240
very much

1260
00:55:07,990 --> 00:55:04,960
thank you vinnie you did a fabulous job

1261
00:55:10,549 --> 00:55:08,000
of hosting the interview and i hope we

1262
00:55:12,790 --> 00:55:10,559
do stay in touch thank you ever so much

1263
00:55:14,069 --> 00:55:12,800
thank you again

1264
00:55:17,270 --> 00:55:14,079
bye-bye jeff

1265
00:55:21,670 --> 00:55:19,829
wow that was fantastic guys um just

1266
00:55:24,470 --> 00:55:21,680
before i go i'd just like to say i'm

1267
00:55:28,549 --> 00:55:24,480
going to be live again this saturday um

1268
00:55:32,390 --> 00:55:28,559
at 12 p.m pacific 3 p.m eastern 8 0pm

1269
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:32,400
gmt with mr lou elizondo sean cahill and

1270
00:55:36,150 --> 00:55:34,480
dan zetterstrom so i hope you can join

1271
00:55:38,069 --> 00:55:36,160
me there you can find all the details on

1272
00:55:40,390 --> 00:55:38,079
my instagram account the link is in the

1273
00:55:43,109 --> 00:55:40,400
description below as well and it's good

1274
00:55:45,589 --> 00:55:43,119
to be back thank you all so so so much i

1275
00:55:48,630 --> 00:55:45,599
really do appreciate you all very much

1276
00:55:50,230 --> 00:55:48,640
so for now guys take care and i will see